I‘m sure by now many of you have read the scenarios that could allow Georgia — a two-loss team that didn’t even win its division, much less its conference — to play for a national title. It’s a long shot that at the least would require Pitt to beat West Virginia this weekend, among other unlikely things.
Twice already since the inception of the BCS, a similar scenario has played out where a team that didn’t win its conference got to play in the national title game (Nebraska in 2002 and Oklahoma in 2004, if I’m not mistaken, but somebody correct me if I’m wrong). Both of those teams were whipped handily, stirring controversy that someone else should have made it in (that undefeated Auburn didn’t play in 2004 was a particularly stinging indictment against the current system).
No system, even a playoff, is ever going to be totally fair. I think a legitimate case could be made for or against a rule banning teams that can’t win their conferences from making the title game.
Let me throw out a scenario: let’s say all the things that would need to happen for Georgia to make the national title game happen (West Virginia loses, etc.). Let’s say then that LSU beats Tennessee in the SEC title game by a close margin in a sloppy, mistake-filled game. That would leave LSU with one more win than Georgia has, but with a performance that wasn’t enough to convince pollsters to leapfrog LSU over Georgia in the human polls.
Who goes?
My BCS math isn’t so hot, but I believe there’s still a pretty good chance Georgia would under those circumstances. Either way, somebody has good reason to gripe.
I probably support the idea of a rule that you can’t play in the national title game without winning your conference, but there are problems with such a rule.
Another scenario: say that rule was in place this year, and Tennessee mops the floor with LSU (unlikely, you say, and I agree, but we’re dealing in hypotheticals). That leaves a three-loss SEC champion in Tennessee, and a three-loss SEC runner-up in LSU. At that point it seems pretty unfair to deny two-loss Georgia a shot, as much as I hate them.
So, my rule would have a caveat: a team that can’t win its conference can’t play for the national title unless its overall record is better than the conference champion’s.
If that rule were in place this year, Georgia would be eliminated from contention with an LSU win, but not with a Tennessee win. There are problems with that rule as well, though: for starters, it might deny the SEC a chance at a national title at all. I think the pros probably outweigh the cons, though.
I guess independents like Notre Dame would just be exempt from having to worry about this rule. That’s probably unfair to teams that have to play a conference championship game, but then again, so is the current system.
What say you?
Update Nov. 29, 2007, 6:31 a.m. I’m rethinking this further based on Ben K’s comment. My rule would now be that not only would the team in question need a better record than its own conference champion to go, but a better record than all available BCS conference champions. That would pretty much mean the only scenario under which a team that didn’t win its conference could make the national title game would be if every team in America except the team in question (and maybe the number one team) had three losses.
Really, nobody can gripe about not making the game if they have three losses. I don’t think Georgia, with two losses, could gripe this year if they were passed over for LSU, no matter how bad LSU’s performance in the SEC championship game is, as long as LSU wins.






If a team was required to win a conference championship to be eligible for the National Championship game, would that make Pitt more eligible than UGA should Pitt pull off an upset against WVU? That seems hardly fair as well.
What about conferences without championship games?
Should Hawaii play for the National Championship because they went undefeated this year?
I don’t think I provided any input, only asked more questions. Oh well…
Wasn’t it the Big 12 that had a system in place that allowed the higher-ranked BCS team in a division, regardless of head-to-head record, to get to their championship game? Not that I’d want UGA playing LSU because they’re a near mortal lock for the Orange or Rose, but it’s a scenario we could see other leagues adopting to ensure that the “best” teams in the eyes of all the interested parties (poll voters and computers) play for the conference title.
And all congratulations and good luck to Tennessee in the SECCG but technically, both our alma maters (almas mater?, my latin is poor) tied for the division, with UT holding the tie-breaker. A similar situation happened in 2003 when UGA, UF & UT were ALL 6-2 with a revolving door of who-beat-whom sending UGA to slaughter at the rematch of LSU because of BCS standings.
I think conferences with championships should have a leg up on independents and conferences that don’t by virtue of having to win an extra game if nothing else. Still, conference championship games are a relatively recent development, and for the conferences that don’t have them, I’d default to having or being tied for best record being a requirement.
I don’t think Pitt would be bumped into the spot, so much as whoever is ranked closest right behind UGA and either a conference champion or independent would be next in line to play.
It would be an admittedly imperfect rule, but after watching Oklahoma and Nebraska’s performances in those respective years where they made it in without winning their conferences, I have trouble stomaching the idea of a team making it in if they didn’t win their conference.
There are problems all the way around. If you start letting teams in based purely on record, then non-conference schedules would go to total shit. Why bother playing a tough out-of-conference schedule when it can only hurt your chances of going undefeated and therefore making the title game?
I agree with your points Rusty and as you state, there are ton of variables and situations at play. For that reason I feel like the simple rule of #1 plays #2 is the best scenario until a playoff system is adopted.
With that said, I do like the idea of a +1 BCS system which lets the original 4 BCS bowl games be played and then the resulting #1 and #2 teams play for the championship title.
Seth,
I think it’s a matter of perspective, as I’ve found nothing that says officially one way or the other that the two teams are “co-champions” or one is just “champion.” I don’t have a copy of the SEC rulebook, but I did find this page on the SEC web site, which says:
If I were a Georgia fan, I would stop reading at “tie for the division championship” and claim part of it. As a Tennessee fan, I’m choosing to interpret “divisional representative” as the sole division champion, particularly given the choice of the word “reduced” when talking about determining the winner of a three-way tie.
Really, they need someone to write the rules a little more clearly.
I don’t think your rule needs a caveat - if Missouri and WV lose, there is a natural two-loss conference champion that makes more sense, and is probably in every way more deserving as UGA - Big XII champ Oklahoma, who would be coming off a win over no. 1 Mizzou.
Despite growing up a Dawgs fan, I’d have to say that Oklahoma, as a conference champ who just beat the no. 1 team in the country, would be more deserving than UGA. I agree whole heartedly that if you can’t win your conference championship, you don’t deserve to play for the national title.
Another question:
How much does SOS play into the BCS computer formula? Should it account for more?
Ben K, good point.
Audacity,
I think it started with a separate SOS component, but now it just factors computer rankings (some of which factor SOS in themselves).
Confused yet?
Rusty,
Yeah, I checked a couple sites but couldn’t find out how they factor in SOS, if they do at all. I can’t say whether it should factor in more since I don’t know how the hell they’re doing it now.
Of course, the SEC might end up fucked in such a system since our teams are going to have 2 losses nearly every year due to the fact that conference is so fierce.
I thought about this on my seven hour sojourn today.
My only conclusion is it’s fucked.
Rusty, I think you just made the argument that the way the SEC (and by extension every 12-team conference) picks its champion is flawed. Obviously if GA can go to the National Championship game without winning the division or the conference, then it’s the SEC’s process that’s broken.
I liked the ACC’s old 9-team process better - everyone plays everyone else.
Scott,
Unfortunately, it’s impossible to have a round robin in a conference with 12 teams. I think the SEC’s system may not be perfect, but isn’t the glaring problem here. The glaring problem is the human pollsters who would rank a two-loss Georgia who didn’t win a championship over a two-loss LSU who did.
I think part of the problem is the rubric used for polling - it is not really defined. Some people vote based on “who is playing the best right now,” others vote based on the whole season, etc.
I think there is a decent argument for UGA above LSU - chiefly, their losses came earlier in the season, and since the Florida game they really look like a different team altogether. I think it is fair that Georgia is playing better football at this given moment than LSU.
Does this mean I think UGA deserves a shot? hell no - they haven’t won a championship. If you can’t earn the right to even play for the honor to be called the best team in your conference, then you have no business being discussed as a potential for the best team in the country. Period. Otherwise, why even play the games? I mean, isn’t that what the SEC championship system is ALL about - an objective way to determine who the best team is? Objectively, UGA is not the best - as determined by the system that they have agreed to.
Even if you don’t agree about the meaning of a conference championship, I personally think that rankings should be about the entire season, and LSU has played a much stronger season altogether than UGA - and if they beat the same Tennessee team that whipped the dogs, they deserve to be ranked higher than UGA. But I also have a bit of a man-crush on Les Miles and so might be biased toward the man with the Michigan degree.
The problem, again, is the system. Is Georgia deserving of going to the BCS Championship Game if West Virginia loses? Yes, based on the existing system (and based on the fact that Georgia has played very well as of late and is arguably playing like of the two best teams in college football). Still, if LSU wins and is 11-2, SEC champion and did it by beating a team Georgia lost to, my personal belief is that LSU should go ahead of Georgia.
Of course, then, one of the problems with such a scenario is the Bulldogs did absolutely nothing to warrant losing the high ranking they have (much of the concern over Michigan falling last year was that they did nothing to warrant falling … much like how Georgia Tech captured half the title in 1990 despite being ranked No. 3 in most polls heading into the bowl games and despite No. 1 Colorado winning its bowl game as well).
I would, however, take some exception to the automatic bid for the conference championship and this notion that Georgia hasn’t earned the right to play for the title. In fact, Georgia did everything in their power to have the chance to play for the title … except beat Tennessee. The Bulldogs finished with an identical conference record as the Vols, compiled a better overall record than them and beat two teams which absolutely hammered Tennessee in the regular season.
All they didn’t do was, well, beat Tennessee, which denied them a chance to play for the conference title (though ultimately it was the best thing for them as it woke the team up and enabled them to finish the season as impressively as they did).
Let me also take a personal objection to LSU putting together a stronger season than Georgia since, well, that’s absurd. LSU’s two losses were to a pair of middle-of-the-pack SEC teams in Kentucky and Arkansas, both with all the pressure and scrutiny that comes with being a team playing for it all, games that big-time teams win.
Georgia lost to a middle-of-the-pack SEC team in South Carolina early in the year and the SEC East’s representative in the SEC Championship Game in Tennessee, and then, with the fate of the season hanging in the balance, the Bulldogs won when they had to win … and won convincingly over some of the most talented teams in the SEC in Florida and Auburn.
I won’t argue that LSU shouldn’t go ahead of Georgia if they win, but I do feel that Georgia is, hands down, the best team in the conference right now.
Before the SEC championship is played, an argument could be made for Georgia having a stronger season than LSU to this point based on a few things:
* A marginally stronger out-of-conference schedule than LSU’s (remember, though, that LSU blew the doors off a pretty decent Virginia Tech team early in the year)
* Playing in (what was this year) the stronger of the two SEC divisions.
* Blowout wins over quality opponents (Auburn and Florida) when LSU has been unconvincing
I disagree with such an argument for several reasons:
* LSU’s losses were in overtime, which is a total crapshoot. Georgia’s were in regulation. One of Georgia’s was a blowout.
* The opponents LSU lost to both have winning records at this point of the season (Kentucky at 7-5, Arkansas at 8-4). South Carolina, one of Georgia’s losses, is 6-6.
I think LSU’s losses both being in overtime negates Georgia losing to a slightly better team (blowout or not).
All this is arbitrary, of course, but to call the argument that LSU had a better season to this point absurd is a stretch of any standard of objectivity.
If LSU wins the SEC championship game, that’s not only a championship Georgia doesn’t have, but (maybe more importantly) an extra win over a quality opponent. The argument for LSU having a stronger season at that point seems indisputable to me.
Also, if Oklahoma beats Missouri, they will also have an extra win against a quality opponent (#1 in the country, no less) and a conference championship as well. For Georgia to go over either of those two teams at that point seems absurd to me.
Absurd is really the key word to all of this. I think it’s absurd that a number one team (typically) has to lose to drop from a number one ranking. In the 1950s, teams would routinely get tossed all over the polls from week-to-week, win or lose. I much prefer the idea of human rankings being fluid like that, making teams earn rankings rather than just playing not to lose them.
Part of the point I was trying to make about the ‘rubric’ problem is in your quote here:
RIGHT NOW, Georgia is probably playing better football. But they weren’t when they lost to 6-6 Carolina and got their ass handed to them by Tennessee. And I will just point to Rusty’s post as to LSU having a better overall season.
Regarding UGA doing nothing to “lose” its ranking, akin to Michigan last year. Well, I was pissed about that at the time, and I still hate Urban Meyer and think he is a classless S.O.B. who doesn’t deserve to eat Lloyd Carr’s leftovers. However, UF’s performance afterwards proved to me that you certainly CAN play your way into a title game, and that you should be able to lose your ranking even if you don’t play that week. It isn’t a birth-right.
Also:
Um, they didn’t do everything in their power to have the chance to play in the title. Was the South Carolina game out of their control? Maybe they did everything in their power on last Saturday, but we are talking about a whole season here.
How is this difficult?
“We have the same record as the other guys.”
“But they beat you. Embarrassingly.”
“But we are still better, can’t you see that? I mean, we finally beat Florida!”
Congrats and all on the Florida win, you still had your ass handed to you by Tennessee and laid a stinker against South Carolina.
Ben K …
Rusty helped negate your argument. Is Kentucky better than LSU? Is Arkansas? I think few, if any, would say those teams are ‘better’ than an LSU team that we all agree should play for the BCS title over Georgia should the Tigers win (and I’d agree with Rusty too regarding Oklahoma).
That’s why the ‘best all season long’ argument is silly because, by your standards, LSU arguably wasn’t the ‘best’ all year long. If the Tigers were, they would have won all their games, not lost to a pair of middle-of-the-road SEC squads and squandered by ranked No. 1 in the country twice.
All we have to look at it as right now, don’t we? I mean, wouldn’t this playoff system that we keep advocating for reward those playing the best football right now?
I mean, we all pretty much agreed Ohio State was the best team in the nation last year throughout the regular season … but then they met a Florida team that, aside from being vastly more athletic than the Buckeyes, was also playing its best football at that given moment.
If we’re saying let’s pick the best two teams and be done with it, then snap up Southern Cal and Oklahoma and be done with it.
I still think you’re off-base when it comes to arguing that Georgia didn’t do everything it could to win the SEC East. They finished with the same record as Tennessee, right? The Volunteers still had two losses in conference play, didn’t they?
They, however, held the tiebreaker by virtue of beating Georgia. Good for them. For the Bulldogs to have a chance, they would have had to win out … which they did, beating five bowl teams in the final six games. They did all they could do, it’s just that Tennessee did more. Hats off to ‘em.
Before the SEC championship is played, an argument could be made for Georgia having a stronger season than LSU to this point based on a few things …
I agree. My argument was based on the regular season record, and I still firmly believe that Georgia’s performance is by far better than LSU’s. Should the Tigers win the SEC Championship Game, beating a Tennessee team which beat Georgia handily in the process, then LSU will have a better resume and be more deserving of a national title shot.
Can you clarify this? The way I see it, by my standards, LSU has the best record in the west, and is therefore the most best team in that division. If LSU had a tiebreaker with either team you mentioned, I’d give that team the nod.
I’m not sure what you are arguing - if LSU wins the SEC title, you have conceded that they would be more deserving of a national title chance. If LSU loses, you’ve conceded that Oklahoma is more deserving. And unless Oklahoma wins, the entire discussion is pointless because Mizzou would play whoever else - Ohio State or WV. Either way, UGA won’t be the second best team in the country.
“most best team” is a typo….
“What about conferences without championship games?”
This is a valid point in some cases and not in others. The “super conferences” with 2 divisions have conference championships because the they are too large and all the teams cannot play each other. So one division’s champion plays the other. This takes place in the ACC, SEC and Big 12. The Pac 10 and Big East don’t need a championship game because they play a full round robin schedule and all teams play all other teams once in the regular season so it is all decided on the field already. There is no ducking USC in the Pac 10. To win the championship you have to play everyone and in case of a tie, head to head winner takes the title.
The conference that has a weak champion is the Big 10. They for reasons I cannot fathom, play a rotational schedule and do not play everyone every year. Wisconsin went undefeated in the regular season a couple years ago and never played Ohio State. That’s a joke. On top of that, they habitually schedule patsy non-conference games in this conference so there is little to go on with records against other BCS conferences. That’s what allowed a relatively weak Ohio State team to play for an be embarrassed in the title game 2 years in a row. Ohio State’s non conference schedule this year was Akron, Youngstown State, Kent St., and Washington. UGLY. If the Big 10 (OK there’s really 11 teams but I guess this conference isn’t too strong in the Math department either) played a full round robin schedule like the Pac 10, this would be a moot point.
Bottom line, you should have to be your conference champ to play for the BCS title. Duh. If the Big 10 doesn’t want to play a legit schedule or have a conference championship game, voters need to start taking that into consideration instead of rewarding these teams for playing weak schedules with tickets to the championship game. Pac 10 and Big East teams should not be penalized as they crown legitimate champions and need no conference championship game. All teams that expect to be considered for BCS title games should be required to play 1-2 non-conference games against other BCS conference teams. If you don’t, voters should do a much better job of discounting their record when considering whether they are deserving to play in the title game and in the rankings overall.